Stalkers Among Us!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Okay. [00:00:02] Speaker B: Welcome to Combing through the Crime with Lori and Ashley, where true crime meets the beauty industry. [00:00:08] Speaker A: We're pulling back the salon cape to uncover the real stories of fraud, theft, scandal, and sometimes even worse, all happening behind the scenes of salons, spas and beauty businesses. [00:00:21] Speaker B: These are true stories reported in public articles, news outlets and police reports. We didn't make them up and they're definitely not our opinions. [00:00:30] Speaker A: We're just here to share the facts, ask the questions, and reveal what really happens behind the chair. [00:00:36] Speaker B: Now let's comb through the crime. Perfect. Can you hear me still? [00:00:52] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. So this is really interesting because I really think this makes you think this story about so many things. I mean, my brain goes everywhere with this. So we in our salon about three years ago, hired this awesome esthetician. Really great. And I'm not going to mention any names, but I think people can really relate to a story like this. So she started working, training, Everything was. Everything was going really well. And then suddenly we started getting these phone calls for, like, from this guy wanting to speak with her. And we're like, you know, fine. But she was really freaked out about it because she had an incident with this person in her previous position. Now she's like, change of career. So her previous position was like more of like a center where people would go to help you if you needed some more extra care and like, your family couldn't take care of. Of you, so they would just drop you off at the center and you would do activities and things like that. So what? They encountered each other there and so she had some difficulties at this place, ends up leaving all. All is good works, starts working with us, and he finds her and starts calling. And you have to. I. At first I felt like a little compassion for the person because I don't know if this person really knew what he was doing or that it wasn't in, you know, it's not inappropriate. It is inappropriate and it's not okay. So a lot of talk was happening, whatever. So she ends up saying, look, this is not okay. And I don't love this. So what can we do? So we put these parameters in place. So we have seven locations. This person can call anywhere, right? And nobody really knows. And anybody can pick up the phone and transfer to another place and, you know, things can get through. Things are going to happen. So he would. We would block the number. He would call back with a different number. He would change his name. He would. So we would block, you know, continue blocking a number. We'd have a procedure in place. If they're asking for this person, block the number, let us know. We've, we contacted the police, started a report, and anytime that this would happen, we would have to contact the police, let them know when it happened, and also let her know so she can continue on with her investigation. Pretty much that was happening because she contacted the police as well. It just ended up getting really out of control. So for a while though, the police were like, there's nothing really we can do. I mean, he's not doing anything wrong. And like. But what. So that I struggle with, like, yes, he is. Like, there's too many things going on here. Like what is happening? It took probably a year for them to actually go and serve him a paper of like a cease and desist. It took them all of these phone calls, all of these like, interactions with him. He also was trying to find other people that worked with her on social media, reaching out constantly. It just was a never ending thing that we had to keep, you know, helping her go to the police about. And I just feel like, why does that have to happen for a whole year? And then we can send a letter to say, okay, you need to stop. But then it doesn't stop. Like it didn't stop from there. It still continues till this day where very, very small, very small. But till this day things will happen. Like he'll, he'll, he's back again and you know, we have to contact the police again, write another report, send another letter. So he's got cease and desist. He's got like all of these things against him. And I think he's in a center like for unstable people. And still this is continuing there. So it's very crazy. And we can call the center all we want, but they won't tell us that he is there. It's like insane. So I, I feel like this can't be the only story out there. There's got to be more. And how do you. First of all, I just feel like it's not okay. And like, how do you navigate through that? It just is a shame. How do you protect your employees? But then again, like, what's, where's the line? [00:06:09] Speaker B: Yeah, let's call this for what it is. This is stalking, right? [00:06:14] Speaker A: Like 1000%. [00:06:15] Speaker B: This is definitely a stalking situation. So when she first, like the very first encounter with him, she was working at that facility. Right. And then he was brought there for like unstable mental conditions, is that right? [00:06:31] Speaker A: Correct. [00:06:32] Speaker B: So he, he saw her every day or whenever she was working. He would see her and like, attached to her. And probably she was just doing her job and was being friendly and, you know, thinking that he had a mental, you know, disorder of some sort, unstable. And she was probably kind, you know, showed him compassion just as you probably did. And he had that attachment to her and came on. I, in my opinion, are we do not do enough soon enough are like our law enforcement when we see things like this happen. Because you're right, I see things like this happen frequently and not just in salons or to our employees, but like all over the place. And everybody that knows these types of cases, when bad things happen, they were reported so many times or so far, you know, previous to whatever the situation happened and nobody stepped in soon enough. And I think that's a problem that we face that she, like, raised her hand. And that's another reason why some people don't say, don't say anything either in like, this we're stalking or like, abuse cases. They don't say anything because nothing is being done. And they feel like, what's the point? Right? Because this person had said, like, I don't feel comfortable changed jobs, like, changed their career path. Because this is like, that's like how unsettling this was for that provider to change jobs. They were. That person found them and is still reaching out, still contacting. And somebody who has mental instability, that's even more sc. Because you just really know what they're capable of in the. That this person is at. Like, what type of safety protocols do they have in place to. I get that it's probably like patient laws and hipaa, all the things to not be able to give that information, but what safety procedures do they have in place to like, monitor phone calls, monitor phone usage? You know, is he will. Is he able to just get up and leave and go wherever he wants? [00:08:45] Speaker A: Yeah. So it' my understanding that he's not able to get up and just leave, but obviously he has access to phones and things like that. And it's just so unsettling to like, know that it's. It's almost like messing with your mind, you know, just, hey, just to let you know, I'm still around here. Like, it's just so crazy to me. I don't understand. And that's the point of reaching out to this facility to say, this is what's happening and you need to, like, do something about it. Like, no one. It's like no one does anything. It's like, oh, it'll go away, but it really doesn't. It doesn't go away. [00:09:24] Speaker B: No. And sometimes it gets worse. Sometimes it gets worse before anything. Does he ever come into the salon? Like, does he ever just walk in? [00:09:32] Speaker A: No, but I believe in the beginning there was an incident where he was in a parking lot or something like that, if I can remember. Not. Yeah, so I, I do think there's some awareness that he's just not welcome and. But yeah, so he sticks with more of the social media, behind the scenes, like call you, that kind of thing. [00:09:59] Speaker B: Which is, which is not any better than being, you know, when you see somebody like that face to face and you know that he's following you or, you know, doing those things, it's scary, but it's, it could be worse knowing that you don't see them, but they could be anywhere, that they know where you are at all the time or that they know your phone number, they know your place of work, they know your schedule. Like, you know, that's, it's unsettling. So what are some of the parameters? What are some of the safety procedures and things that you guys put in place at the salon to sort of help her? [00:10:34] Speaker A: Yeah, so we, we got our lawyers involved because the police weren't they, they eventually came around. I will say I'm not going to just, you know, kind of. [00:10:45] Speaker B: Okay, well, that's good. [00:10:46] Speaker A: Down a little bit, but like a good year at least. [00:10:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:52] Speaker A: So it's way too long. It is. So, yeah, we did get our lawyers involved. We wrote up a whole protocol. So if this person does call, if this person does reach out on social media, this is the next step. So they, they immediately take the phone number, if they have it, the time that it was called in, where it was called in, all of the information. So if it was social media, if it was a phone call, and then it gets sent over to our offices in the corporate buildings, and then we take it from there to the lawyer and to the police officer that's in charge of the. The case. So it's definitely like. And our whole company knows about it. So it's been posted multiple times. It's, you know, front desk knows people that are always answering phones. [00:11:44] Speaker B: Our whole. [00:11:45] Speaker A: And we also posted it on our company wide page just in case with the social media things where this person's reaching out just randomly if you don't. And that's just kind of social media etiquette as well. So if you don't know them and don't accept them as a friend, don't interact with them, like, that's just something we should always follow. But in this case, we really wanted to emphasize that, too. So we. We definitely have done. We feel as much as we possibly can and then, you know, continue. Just to be consistent about it, we're not going to drop the ball with it. We're not going to leave up on it, and we'll just continue to do it as long as we have to. [00:12:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Having support for her or, you know, the business supporting her is amazing, especially since you said she's, like, an amazing person and really great for the team and she's been there now for, you know, years. Do you. Did you guys ever feel like maybe there's any risk or that you're risking harm or anything to, like, anybody else in the song? [00:12:52] Speaker A: Yes. I will follow up with that. She actually did leave us, which was fine, all good things, and went back to a career that she previously had with, I believe, in her family, which was totally fine. And why this still continues is because he reaches out to anybody that works for us now. So it started with her. Now it's trickling into, like, whoever he can get in contact with. So, yeah, we totally were concerned about it in the beginning, but again, we actually reached out to our employment lawyers that we deal with just to understand what it is that we need to do to make sure that we're okay handling it in a way where everybody is safe. And so we feel like we took on that responsibility, very transparent with everybody, and that's. That's the way we want to keep it. So even though, like, she's not there anymore, she. I know that we really feel like we backed her up 100% again. She just. She just wanted to go back to a different career. Totally fine. It still continues to this day. And because of that incident. So it is a ripple effect. And I do feel like I don't think there would have been anything else we could have done for it not to ripple into anybody else in the company. I, you know, I go back and I think, like, okay, what if we would part ways at that point? Just because it was getting, you know, crazy? I think it still would have continued. And I think, like, you know, her exiting and it's still continuing is an attest to that. Yeah. [00:14:41] Speaker B: And it's not like there's any indicators before you hire this person, you know? [00:14:47] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. [00:14:48] Speaker B: They don't come in and say, oh, by the way, I have a stalker. And sometimes they don't even know before that there's no preventative measures that you can take in place before this happens, necessarily. Right. Especially if she's great and you really want to hire her. [00:15:03] Speaker A: There really was like amazing assets of the business. I was sad to see her go, but totally understand, like, you know, going with family. I get it. [00:15:11] Speaker B: Yeah. And just because like, so the company that this happened in is a. You said seven locations, Right. So this is a big organization. And you mentioned like your employee, you know, your employee attorneys, all that kind of thing. Not every salon owner or business has like a stack of lawyers for different things that they work with. [00:15:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:32] Speaker B: So like what, in your experience of already dealing with this, what would you say to other salon owners today that maybe don't have all of those resources that you guys did? Like where, what would you suggest them? [00:15:45] Speaker A: No, I get it. So we are members at a company called mea and it's an employment law membership based company. So I think it's. It's not much a month to become a member. And they're not the only ones. So there's a bunch of different memberships out there, places you can look at, things like that. Why I think that that's something to consider in your business is because of any human resources, any employment, anything that comes up, you can reach out to them about any sort of situation. So I am the human resources in our business. But there's, I don't know everything. And there's a lot of times where I'm like, I'm kind of second guessing myself here. Yeah, I can off the cuff handle whatever, but sometimes it involves more. So especially like things like this where you're just a little uncertain. You want to make sure that you're doing it right and you have the best interest of all the employees. So I don't know, I think it's something to consider. It doesn't just help you out with, you know, a situation like this. It helps you out with handbooks, policies and procedures, anything like that. And I think just kind of the knowledge behind it is huge. So looking at each individual state, I'm sure they have, you know, something like this. And in their state, maybe we can. [00:17:21] Speaker B: Link that MEA website under the show so that people can check that out or find something similar in their area. Because this could have like think of the, on a flip side of this where this could have had the potential to go really badly in the salon. Like, what if for say in the salon somebody like this is happening? Right. And the salon owner takes whatever they thought was the best thing and they're like, hey, let's part ways. This is not working. We're putting, you know, and say they terminate that employee because they think like they're putting other employees at risk or whatever. And that employee turns around and then says like, you know, termination for the wrong reasons. They try to sue. Like it just could turn into a really bad situation if not appropriately. Right. So definitely, I think you guys handled it in the right way. Very openly and transparently. You know, making everybody aware of it, getting the law enforcement, police department, you know, making sure that they were aware of it, doing police reports, talking to your attorneys about how to handle it, I think are all of the right steps and not feeling like as a salon owner that you have to like take on this whole thing and like, you know, seeking out the right. [00:18:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's. You just said what I think most salon owners always do and take on everything themselves. Themselves. [00:18:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:57] Speaker A: I just feel like there's so many resources out there. There's so many things that can help you help run your business. So I. Taking advantage of all of those things is so important. Not just when we're talking about the employee, you know, procedures, policies, how to handle employee situations. Not even just that, but just your everyday. Anything utilizing resources and technology is huge. Yeah. So don't take it on yourself. It's too much. [00:19:29] Speaker B: Yeah. And also like there are resources too to share with your team so that they can learn. [00:19:37] Speaker A: Yes. [00:19:37] Speaker B: Some of those like self awareness, boundaries and things that they're sharing because we know like when you're standing behind the chair, that relationship with your client, and I know that's not the case here, but we're talking about stalking in general. [00:19:51] Speaker A: And this happened anyway. [00:19:54] Speaker B: She didn't even know this person. Right. It's not like he was a client. They interacted from a, from a place of business where she was working. But if you think about people who end up having stalkers or that are stalkers, as a hairstylist or a service provider in the salon, we have a relationship with the clients that get very personal. And sometimes we share or even over share with the people that are sitting in front of us and, and people can take an attachment to that and they feel like they know you. They feel like you are, you know, somebody in their life because that's what happens. We put ourselves in that place to form that relationship for retention purposes and all of those reasons. Right. But over sharing or not having, you know, personal boundaries sometimes could put you in a, in a sticky situation that maybe you don't necessarily want to be in. [00:20:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that's so true. Awareness is huge. Yeah. I love that. [00:20:54] Speaker B: And sharing it with your team and how to protect your boundaries or how to identify or how to like be aware of your surroundings and where you're at. And not to hold things in, but to share things. Like we've talked about this on other episodes already, but like to make sure that you share, you know, if something weird is happening, to make sure that you're aware of that. But also as a salon owner, you said that too. Like, don't feel like you need to take this on yourself. Outsource resources, you know, and somebody that is familiar with these types of things that are happening. Because this is, you said this too. This is not the only situation that you've ever heard, ever will ever hear of. It happens way more frequently. But also people are probably just not talking about it or they're not sharing it and they're trying to just deal with it on themselves or it's embarrassing seeing potentially. Right. Like people hold this in because they don't, they don't want to tell people about it or they take self blame and feel like they did something to cause it, which is not. Not the case most of the time. [00:21:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:56] Speaker B: And how do they get out of those things? That's. It's a scary. It's definitely a scary situation. [00:22:02] Speaker A: Oh, for sure. Yeah. No, I agree. And I think, you know, getting, getting a plan together is huge. So, you know, definitely form a plan, come up with the plan that you need that you feel comfortable with your team. What does that look like for anything? You know, this type of situation, a stalking situation, you know, maybe you have some. Something going on in the salon that you're uncomfortable with. What's the plan? Like always know what you need to do next. I think is important. So start there. [00:22:33] Speaker B: Yep. I love it. [00:22:39] Speaker A: Sam.